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B2B Vault Episode 52: ATM TRENDS 2022

Written by Allen Kopelman

February 10, 2022

Video Transcription

Hey, everybody Allen Kopelman here with the B2B Vault: The Payment Technology Podcast for business owners and merchants. We’re providing educational information for business owners and merchants. So today’s podcast, we’re going to talk about ATM trends for 2022.

ATM’s is crazy, right? It’s like, you know, they were trying, we always hear about, oh, there’s a cashless society, but you know, I can tell you, we run an ATM portfolio, and ATMs are all very, very busy. Thank you to the people who have ATMs in their business, and all the ATM operators are out there. I’m sure they’re happy with that. I mean, we saw a trend in joining 22 with ATMs every time they sent out a stimulus check, the ATM transactions, spike tire. So I love it.

Every time they do that, you know, so the same thing happens tax return time, ATM transactions, spike. Cause many people to get an ATM card from like H and R block or turbo tax or whatever. It’s crazy that they use it at those DTMS, the fees on there every time Tiny use it. Yeah, there’s a fee, but some people don’t have a bank account, so they get money like that. So what’s going on with ATMs and 20 joining two. So there are some supply chain issues.

So we’ve talked to, you know, we have one manufacturer. We like, we like the HIOsong. That’s my favorite ATM, and we have everything for the ATMs in stock. We have parts and inventory, so we’re delighted with that. But there have been other ATM companies manufacturers that had parts where they didn’t have parts for the ATMs. And then you got to guess what you got to buy a new ATM, get the parts. So we’ve been fortunate. You know, we have a lot of HIO song parts, you know, cause when ATM’s break or they get, you know, or something falls on the ATM and then, you know, you’ll always end up with extra parts here and there.

So we always save our parts to help our clients save money too, you know, EMV requirements. This is something that there hasn’t been a lot in the news. I saw a couple of news stories about it. I saw a couple of companies send out emails about it that there would be some new encryption for the pin pads on the ATMs. So that’s interesting because now you don’t know what’s going to happen, or they’re going to make us replace all these pin pads, or are we going to have to remote inject all the pimp pads on like a whole fleet? ATMs, I mean, it’s a little crazy, but I have not seen the finalization of that, but you know, like we went through a lot with ATMs before.

So the first bout we went with ATMs was the ADA. There were ADA requirements, which took many ATMs out of the market because the keypads were too high for people with disabilities. You know, someone in a wheelchair couldn’t access the ATM because it was too high. Quite a few ATMs were removed from the market. One of them was called the mini bank, and the keypad was way high. It was way up to OD. Many banks and then this picture, if you’re watching on YouTube, we have one that gets mounted on the wall.

So whenever we sell one of those, we tell them, Hey, you have to, the keypad can only be, this has to be minimum height. Otherwise, you going to have some ADA or the fire department or somebody’s building inspector comes in, they kick out their measuring tape, and they go, oh, it’s supposed to be whatever the, whatever it is, 32 inches or something like that, you have to meet. So EMV requirements for ATMs that’s something. If you have an older ATM, you should pay attention to, to, to that.

Cause you might need a whole new ATM, or you might need a completely new keypad. So all you people, There were those ATMs from like 1987, please get a new, Yeah, well ATM, if you don’t have a, an EMV card reader on your ATM, you need to get one because basically, you can have a bunch of chargebacks. The person could if they’re you still using a swiper on your ATM, first of all, there’s a fi you get like EMV, fine for that. You get a minor fine if you do over 3% of your transactions.

It’s pretty minor, but we’ve seen some places get it. And that’s caused mainly by people who put the card in and pull it out like real fast a few times. Is it a bit of a trick? Yeah. But you know, if you do it correctly, the machine locks the card in, but sometimes people are not there, you know, they’re they think they know like some kind of trick or maybe the chip fails. And then the machine reads the mag Stripe. So, you know, but we always tell people, like we send out cleaning guards so that people can keep the, keep the readers clean.

We also know that nobody gets those minor fines. If you don’t have EMV readers on your machine, you need to replace those because that’s a big NoMo cannabis. I feel like cars are going to stop working. If, well, no, we have all our machines with the vehicle, we can go cardless. There are a lot of banks like Wells Fargo, has it? And I think a couple of other banks have it, but I believe we’ll see it in 2022 and 2023. I think we’re going to see more banks do this. So when you want to get money from the ATM, you’ll go to your bank app.

You’ll say, oh, I want a hundred bucks from the ATM, and you’re going to hit the boom. Then you’re going to hit enter. It’s going to give you a code. Then you’re going to go up to the machine. You’re going to hit the cardless thing. I like that. And then you’ll hit cardless, it’ll say, oh, what’s your PIN? What’s your ask you for the code. You’ll punch in the code. Then I’ll say, oh, what’s your PIN. And then it’ll just spit out the amount of cash that you asked for on the app if it’s allowed at the ATM.

Some ATMs have a limit of 200, 300, and some have up to 500 max. You can take it out of the ATM. But I think you’re going to see more banks adopt that method. You know you know, we’re going to, you know, cardless, it’s coming, it’s coming. I mean, a few banks have done it. So why not more banks should do it, or you’ll see it where, you know, you’ll be able to take your app up to the machine. Readers on the device can read like QR codes and stuff. Do they’ve been on machines for years? Yeah.

So cannabis rules, this is something going on now where there are some companies we do not do this that have these like credit card machines that are processing transactions in cannabis stores using the debit network or the ATM network. And some of the banks are not allowing that. And they’re shutting many machines down when they find them, find them. If somebody, if you have a cannabis location, you know, a dispensary that’s licensed, you know, we can get you set up. We put it, and we can arrange an ATM in there. And we lowe, we load it with cash. We have our money and load the machines. So you don’t have to worry about packing the machines.

And then you don’t have to worry about all these, the anti-money laundering and stuff like that. I’ve talked to many dispensary owners, and I go, we load our machines. And then, after a while, the bank shuts us down, of course, they shut you down because you’re not going in and picking up the twenties, loading it into the machine, getting deposit and picking up twenties, loading, hit it in a machine, getting deposits. So they see that it’s an AML violation. You know, I, I want to tell people about them. Like when you put an ATM, I have a guy who’s got a couple of convenience stores. He was putting in, and he bought some ATMs from Ross.

I said, listen, go to your bank, open up a new bank account, put money in it, and tell them that’s for your ATM and that, and you fund that account. And that’s where you’re getting your twenties from. If you’re going to take the twenties out of your register and stick them in there, your bank is going to shut you off. You know, not us; we’re not the ones following the money, the banks following the money. So they know they can see you’re getting deposits from an ATM company.

They’re checking to make sure you took the twenties out of the bank or tens or whatever you’re loading in your ATM. So that you can do that new services at the ATM all point, which is connected to banks that gets people a lower transaction fee, MasterCard money pickup, which allows, let’s say, here in Fort Lauderdale. And I sent Justin on a business trip, and he needs $500. I can, and if I had MasterCard money pickup, if I had a master card on my debit card, I could go to my bank app and get a code for Justin.

He could walk up to the ATM, punch in the code, punch another pin code, and boom. It could spit out a couple of hundred bucks more. So people use that while their kids are at college and things like that. That’s happening already. That’s happening already. Money pickup at the ATM cat’s part of the cashless transactions. Really? Yeah. What’s going on now? I have not seen that. Maybe I don’t go to the ATM either, though, I guess. Yeah. Well, you know, bank ATMs don’t have it, but when you go to non-bank owned ATM’s they offer extra services. I mean, at one point, we had a gift card.

Are you going to see That? I’m sorry to cut you off. You’re going to see that more on like those Bitcoin ATM’s or that’s something new too. You’re going to see more Bitcoin ETFs. Some of those manufacturers are making like a sidecar, like a smaller version of it. The stick is next to the ATM. I’m not a big fan of those machines because, from a safety standpoint, we don’t want to have to keep sending somebody out to unload the cash out of those machines. So they were costly. So that’s not like something I want to get involved with.

I mean, you do have other services that are coming up on the ATM, like Liberty X, where you can purchase Bitcoin at the ATM. So you don’t even need a particular side machine. There are others called Bitcoin for you where you can redeem Bitcoin on the ATM. So you can go up to the ATM with your K your Coinbase app and go. If that has Bitcoin for you, you want to get a hundred bucks out of your Bitcoin in cash. You can do it. So there will be more and more of those things going on with the ATMs. We did that one. Yeah. So here’s what we’re talking about.

Bitcoin, ATM’s cashing out Bitcoin buying Bitcoin MasterCard, all point cardless transactions, all that, all this stuff is going to grow, grow, grow on the ATM network. I think you’re going to see, you know, we’ve already seen other things like Verde seen other things with ATMs like people try to put what they call ATM recyclers, so where people can deposit cash in the ATM and send it to their bank account. However, that hasn’t been popular. So where you can do that, somebody told me they put one into a nightclub, and they thought like all the weight waitresses and bartenders would take the cash and put it in the machine. That takes too long too.

Someone’s not going to sit there with a bunch of ones and fives and tens and twenties. They may, let’s say, a couple of hundred bucks. I got to sit there and load it into the ATM and then send it to their bank account. I think they rather have the cash. I would rather have the money. So, you know, that’s another ATM trend. I don’t know if that’s going to catch on or not. So, you know, cannabis, you know, cashless ATM’s point of banking cash as ATMs, that’s kind of out when banking is still allowed by a couple of banks where you have a machine connected to the ATM network.

And as long as the ATM bank is allowed, it’s allowed, but people doing pin debit where it’s accessing the pin debit network, that pin debit network and ATM network are two separate things. The pin and the people making a banking point are not accessing the visa, MasterCard networks. So they’re only accessing the debit networks that are not owned by visa and MasterCard. So that’s how they’re getting around the rules, because why, because they’re not served well, visa and MasterCard, they don’t want to have anything to do with cannabis.

So that’s it, that’s it they’re there. They’re on the sidelines with cannabis. So if somebody is running debit transactions and the person saying, oh, it’s a cashless ATM Ella, you can tell right away from them, I could tell right away when someone shows me the receipt, I go, that’s debit. That’s not the point of banking. So there’s a big difference. And it’s not a cashless ATM; it’s debit. People use all kinds of things. Oh, we can process debit. We can process this, and It’s a cashless ATM and a banking point.

You may need to ask them what networks they are using? And who’s the bank cannabis banking, safe banking act. Congress has been talking about this again, 20, 22. Is this the year I mentioned it in another podcast about payment trends for 20 21, 20 22 mid said, get out of here, Mitch? He doesn’t want any. We’re going to get to the whole United States High. Well, no, I think he was talking about that thing where some have Biden wants to spend $300 million on crack pipes or something.

No, He wasn’t talking, but he was talking about the safe banking act. No, no, but there’s something else going on, with giving people a safe place to do drugs or something. I had been saying, and I’m not down with that. So, you know, but we’ll see, you know, eventually, listen, we got a lot of debt, and then I think the federal government should start collecting some tax on cannabis to get us out of debt. They got to do something. I’m not going to argue with you. I mean, if you look at all the other states that have legalized, No, it’s legalized on a state level and more than half the states.

So the federal government should be collecting its fair share of the taxes. We’ve got a deficit that’s out of control. That might be the ticket to get us out of the deficit. So I’m not a politician, you know, armored car service. This is another thing, you know, we call managed ATM solutions where you have a high traffic location. You don’t want to deal with loading the ATM. We do it all. We provide the ATM. We provide the cash. We offer the armored car service. All the machines are monitored. 24 7 machine breaks. A tech goes out, and there’s a jam. A tech goes out, and the device gets low on money. The armored car goes out. We were in locations all over the United States.

We can load ATMs all over the US, so it’s a top-rated service. You know, here’s another thing that popped up yesterday in my email. So ATM deployers lawsuit against visa, MasterCard resumed. This lawsuit started in 2011. Now we’re 20, 22, 10 years, more, 12 years later, 11 years later. And it looks like there’s going to be a settlement. So there’s been a bunch of emails going around. If you get approached by a law firm asking you about signing up so they can earn you money out of that lawsuit, do not do it. Do not sign up with any law firms. Other suits are out there too about visa and MasterCard settlement.

There’s not going to be hardly any money left of that thing either. That lawsuit’s been going on for years and years and years. Some of the largest businesses in the United States, Walmart being one of them, had a provision for how much money they were getting out of that lawsuit. Then they left with the leftovers after Walmart, and all the other big companies took their chunk, and the lawyers took their piece. There’s going to be chump change left. I remember the one lawsuit that started when I first got into the business brought by Walmart against visa and MasterCard, and companies then got anywhere from.

I saw some small companies got 50, a hundred, 200, $500. Some businesses got several thousand dollars. We had a client who owned many restaurants, and we filled out all the paperwork ourselves. They get a packet in the mail from the attorney. We showed them how to fill it out. So if you start getting any paperwork about ATM lawsuit the visa, MasterCard lawsuit, and something like a law firm wants to sign you up, do not sign up with any of them. You don’t need them to collect the money. Then you’re just going to, and you’re going to get when the actual thing gets settled, everybody will get a letter in the mail. You’ll take out the note fill it out. They’ll ask you for your merchant number or merchant numbers.

You put it all in there, and then you’ll send it in. Then, if there’s any money, you’ll get a check. So, you know, we had one. Yeah. We had somebody else who had like at the top 50 stores, and they ended up getting about 15, 20 grand. Yeah. We helped them fill. We just showed them how to fill it out. They filled it all out. They mailed it in. I got them. They got checked back in the mail, which meant a class action lawsuit. You don’t need it. I mean, I remember I had some, I got something. It was about a T and T or something. I sent it in, and I got a check for $3. I thought it was fake.

I took it to the bank. I go. Is this an actual check? No, no, that’s real. Suppose they want to give me three bucks. I’ll take three dollars. But can you imagine they sent like all these people, like two or $3 over to the United States? I mean, they paid for the printing. They paid postage donated to some orphanages, something, man, giving everybody three bucks, isn’t solving a problem. No, I’m saying it’s almost like insulting. Like once I got a check for some, for some class action lawsuit, it was like 11 cents. I didn’t even take it to the bank.

I was like, and then I said, you know what? I should take it to the bank. Cause probably the lawyer would end up with it. And if everybody did that, the lawyer, they end up with a bunch of money there, and he sucked off 30, 40%. No, but if you get any of these lawsuits in the mail about the visa, MasterCard lawsuit, or the ATM lawsuit, do not sign up with any law firms, you be able to, when it’s settled, you will be able to fill out paperwork and get it sent in. These lawsuits have offered the one for the ATM for over a decade. I can’t even remember the other visa, and MasterCard also has I can’t even remember.

It’s seven, eight years, at least that thing’s been going on. There has got to be a connection due to the length of time on both. I think whatever everyone who owns an ATM, I heard, might get 50 or 60 bucks. That’s not a lot of money. Maybe if you’ve got a hundred ATMs, that’s a nice chunk of change to get. But you know, for the average person, one ATM, and you know, let’s say you have an ATM in your convenience store. You’re going to where you can fill out the paper, and it will take you 10 minutes. You’ll get your 50 bucks instead of having to split it with the lawyer. And you’re going to have to give them the information anyway because they need it. They’re going to need your ATM ID number or whatever. Right. So you know, and who you, so you know, just fill it out yourself.

So thank you for listening to B2B Vault today, The Payment Technology Podcast. You can connect with us on podcasts streaming platforms, networks, and social media. Also, if you want to see more about B2B Vault and our business, you can click on my link tree and the show notes and connect with me there. Everybody has a great day and Carpe diem.

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